Discussion:
Schutte Lumber Burns
(too old to reply)
Nehmo Sergheyev
2003-10-13 17:57:41 UTC
Permalink
Schutte Lumber http://www.schuttelumber.com/default.shtm
in Kansas City, Missouri was pretty much the only place in KC to get
many wood products. It had a large selection of hardwoods and supplied
cedar in dimensions unavailable elsewhere. It just burned.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Midwest/10/13/lumber.fire.ap/

The building that contained all the expensive hardwood escaped
destruction, but the place is, of course, closed and the fire destroyed
a staggering amount of softwood, including cedar.

Two other recent KC area fires were probably caused by arson
http://www.kctv5.com/Global/story.asp?S=1479042&nav=1PuZIU6S

Many people in the remodeling/construction business in this area
depended on Schutte. Shipping wood here is too inconvenient for many
small businesses.

The person who did this is a pyro who is now hooked on seeing lumber
yards go up.

[To see KC Star articles, you need to register and then search. The full
article is below.]
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/
No stranger to disaster, Schutte plans to reopen
By GLENN E. RICE and ERIN FITZGERALD The Kansas City Star

Schutte Lumber Co. has persevered through fires and floods in its
123-year history in Kansas City.
This weekend's fire will be no different, a company executive said.
"We look forward to being able to clean up and getting back into
business in a reasonable time," Stacy Fyock, chief financial officer for
Schutte, said Sunday as fire crews doused hot spots left from the blaze.

It is not known when the business will reopen. Fyock said it would take
several days before work crews would be able to enter the buildings to
assess the damage.
"It's premature for us to say a lot," Fyock said. "We want to be able to
go in and see what we have."
Schutte Lumber provides specialty service to dozens of commercial
contractors, construction companies, area lumberyards and even the
novice weekend home remodeler.

It is one of only a handful of regional lumberyards that provide
specialty plywood and other wood products. Fyock said Schutte offers an
assortment of hard-to-find wood products such as exotic hardwood,
specialty plywood and composite decking.
The company has a customer base that extends from Omaha to the north,
Topeka and Manhattan to the west; Columbia to the east and Clinton, Mo.,
to the south, Fyock said.

The company receives its materials from Georgia Pacific and a number of
other national and regional lumber mills, Fyock said. The company also
supplies lumber to several area lumberyards and specialty stores.

The company enjoys a rich history in the city, mostly as a family-owned
business.
Founded in 1880 by grocer Sigismund Z. Schutte, the company originally
was at the southeast corner of 16th and McGee streets.
In 1902, the yard moved to the northeast corner of 25th Street and Grand
Avenue. Then in 1923, the company purchased land on Southwest Boulevard.
At the turn of the century, Schutte's son, Victor, joined his father in
the family business. Victor's two half-brothers, Louis and Carl Schutte,
also came on board.
An article in the Aug. 20, 1950, edition of The Kansas City Star
described the company as one of the largest of its type in the United
States, supplying goods to about 3,000 retail lumber dealers in
Missouri, Kansas, Oklahoma, Nebraska and Iowa.
Victor Schutte eventually took over the family business, and after his
death in 1951, his wife, Caroline, ran the company.
Fuhrman & Co., a holding company, purchased Schutte Lumber from the
Schutte Trust in 1997. The trust had been overseeing the operation of
the company since Caroline Schutte died in 1993.

Disasters are nothing new to Schutte.
In 1936, fire destroyed the company's planing mill on Southwest
Boulevard. Losses were estimated at $25,000.
More than a decade later, in 1949, a fire damaged 40,000 to 50,000
square feet of lumber.
A more extensive fire broke out in July 1951 after a flood that same
month put much of the company's facility under water.
The flood of October 1998 also damaged the company's facilities.

The Star's Edward M. Eveld contributed to this report.
To reach Glenn E. Rice, call (816) 234-5908 or send e-mail to
***@kcstar.com.
To reach Erin Fitzgerald, call (816) 234-7722 or send e-mail to
***@kcstar.com.






--
********************
* Nehmo Sergheyev *
********************
DexAZ
2003-10-13 18:15:06 UTC
Permalink
Hope they can get it all cleaned up and rebuild. Tough to find a real
lumberyard these days.

Seems I heard of a string of condos-under-construction fires out in the San
Diego area recently too. Those and the rash of SUV (HUMMER) dealership
fires nationwide are thought to be the work of some eco-terrorists. Maybe
they are after lumberyards now too? "save the rain forests etc"

DexAZ

"Earth _first_
we'll mine the other planets later" bumpersticker on back of SUV coming out
of big condo development up in Scottsdale, AZ
Lou W
2003-10-13 19:01:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by DexAZ
Hope they can get it all cleaned up and rebuild. Tough to find a real
lumberyard these days.
Seems I heard of a string of condos-under-construction fires out in the San
Diego area recently too. Those and the rash of SUV (HUMMER) dealership
fires nationwide are thought to be the work of some eco-terrorists. Maybe
they are after lumberyards now too? "save the rain forests etc"
Calling someone an "eco-terrorist" makes about as much sense as
calling a junkie a "recreational heroin user". These assholes are Terrorists
plain and simple. The only difference between ELF and Al Queda is that Elf
has not killed any human beings YET. At least not that I am aware of. They
will fuck up and people will die eventually. Maybe then the rest of the
masses will see them for what they really are.........terrorists. The only
good terrorists are dead ones.

Lou
Post by DexAZ
DexAZ
"Earth _first_
we'll mine the other planets later" bumpersticker on back of SUV coming out
of big condo development up in Scottsdale, AZ
Gary - US
2003-10-15 22:10:11 UTC
Permalink
Well put Lou.
--
Semper Fi & God Bless America,

Gary-US MCNGP #20 & retired Jarhead

http://www.mcngp.tk
The MCNGP Team - We're here to help
** STUPID DOG !! **
Post by Lou W
Post by DexAZ
Hope they can get it all cleaned up and rebuild. Tough to find a real
lumberyard these days.
Seems I heard of a string of condos-under-construction fires out in the
San
Post by DexAZ
Diego area recently too. Those and the rash of SUV (HUMMER) dealership
fires nationwide are thought to be the work of some eco-terrorists.
Maybe
Post by Lou W
Post by DexAZ
they are after lumberyards now too? "save the rain forests etc"
Calling someone an "eco-terrorist" makes about as much sense as
calling a junkie a "recreational heroin user". These assholes are Terrorists
plain and simple. The only difference between ELF and Al Queda is that Elf
has not killed any human beings YET. At least not that I am aware of. They
will fuck up and people will die eventually. Maybe then the rest of the
masses will see them for what they really are.........terrorists. The only
good terrorists are dead ones.
Lou
Post by DexAZ
DexAZ
"Earth _first_
we'll mine the other planets later" bumpersticker on back of SUV coming
out
Post by DexAZ
of big condo development up in Scottsdale, AZ
rrr
2003-10-20 02:45:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lou W
Calling someone an "eco-terrorist" makes about as much sense as
calling a junkie a "recreational heroin user". These assholes are Terrorists
plain and simple. The only difference between ELF and Al Queda is that Elf
has not killed any human beings YET. At least not that I am aware of. They
will fuck up and people will die eventually. Maybe then the rest of the
masses will see them for what they really are.........terrorists. The only
good terrorists are dead ones.
How about killing all of the US government officials who practice terrorism?

ELF is not terrorist. Terrorism involves killing people and right now
the US government is Terrorist #1.

I'm sure this statement will upset some of you, but I'm just repeating
what the rest of the world thinks about the US government.

Chuck0
Infoshop.org
AB
2003-10-20 10:41:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by rrr
Post by Lou W
Calling someone an "eco-terrorist" makes about as much sense as
calling a junkie a "recreational heroin user". These assholes are
Terrorists plain and simple. The only difference between ELF and Al
Queda is that Elf has not killed any human beings YET. At least not
that I am aware of. They will fuck up and people will die eventually.
Maybe then the rest of the masses will see them for what they really
are.........terrorists. The only good terrorists are dead ones.
How about killing all of the US government officials who practice terrorism?
ELF is not terrorist. Terrorism involves killing people and right now
the US government is Terrorist #1.
I'm sure this statement will upset some of you, but I'm just repeating
what the rest of the world thinks about the US government.
Chuck0
Infoshop.org
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=terrorist

"One that engages in acts or an act of terrorism."

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=terrorism

"The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or
an organized group against people or property with the intention of
intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for
ideological or political reasons."

ELF is terrorist, and they practice terrorism. ELF has been doing damage
to property (read the definition) for years in both the northeast and
the northwest.

Terrorists organizations would use such as the following as an emblem of
their "struggle" against whatever they think they need to struggle
against:

http://www.earthliberationfront.com

They may be inept as well, but only a terrorist organization would
resort to such acts as the following:

"September 23, 2003 - The Earth Liberation Front Press Office has
received a communique from the Earth Liberation Front claiming they
left incendiary devices at a pumping station supplying a water bottling
plant owned by Nestle Waters North America (formerly known as the
Perrier Group of America) in Mecosta County, Michigan. According to
news reports, these incendiaries failed to ignite and were removed from
the station without incident."

http://www.earthliberationfront.com/main.shtml

How sweet: a nutcase terrorist organization has a press office so they
can pretend to be mainstream!

Your wild-eyed kook ranting doesn't enhance your credibility whatsoever.
rrr
2003-10-26 06:58:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by AB
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=terrorist
"One that engages in acts or an act of terrorism."
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=terrorism
"The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or
an organized group against people or property with the intention of
intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for
ideological or political reasons."
ELF is terrorist, and they practice terrorism. ELF has been doing damage
to property (read the definition) for years in both the northeast and
the northwest.
Sorry, but a dictionary defintion is not authoritative here. The word
"terrorism" has many meaning these days.
Post by AB
Terrorists organizations would use such as the following as an emblem of
their "struggle" against whatever they think they need to struggle
Well, ELF isn't terrorist, because they don't try to hurt or kill random
people for political goals. The U.S. government, on the other hand, is
widely seen around the world as being the biggest promoter and
perpetrator of terrorism.

Sorry, AB, but those are the facts.

Chuck0
AB
2003-10-28 16:29:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by rrr
Post by AB
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=terrorist
"One that engages in acts or an act of terrorism."
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=terrorism
"The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person
or an organized group against people or property with the intention
of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for
ideological or political reasons."
ELF is terrorist, and they practice terrorism. ELF has been doing
damage to property (read the definition) for years in both the
northeast and the northwest.
Sorry, but a dictionary defintion is not authoritative here. The word
"terrorism" has many meaning these days.
How convenient. It's your position, then, that destruction of property
to instill fear, further political goals and/or coerce others into
modifying behavior is /not/ terrorist behavior?
Post by rrr
Post by AB
Terrorists organizations would use such as the following as an emblem
of their "struggle" against whatever they think they need to struggle
Well, ELF isn't terrorist, because they don't try to hurt or kill
random people for political goals. The U.S. government, on the other
hand, is widely seen around the world as being the biggest promoter
and perpetrator of terrorism.
OK. ELF can't be terrorist because they don't go out of their way to
hurt random individuals, right? Then how can the US government be
terrorist? They go after other governments. The fact that innocent
people might get caught in the middle is incidental, as I'm sure ELF
will say when there are real casualties. For that matter, the US often
goes out of its way, and take a lot greater chances, simply to avoid
hurting people.

I didn't label ELF terrorist, though they fit the definition (I know you
want to ignore definitions that are inconventient, but that is simply
nonsensical). These people call them terrorist:

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/ecoterror_support020226.html

"The two groups have managed to almost completely elude law enforcement,
despite not being shy about trumpeting their successes. They issued a
joint statement in January claiming responsibility for 67 illegal acts
last year, including setting a fire that destroyed a $5.4 million
horticulture building at the University of Washington."

http://www.freebiehighway.com/survivalcenter/Cdefense/terrorismlinks.htm

"Eco-Terrorism and Animal Rights
Earth Liberation Front
The North American Earth Liberation Front Press Office is a legal,
above-ground news service dedicated to exposing the political and
social motives behind the covert direct actions of the underground
Earth Liberation Front."

http://www.furcommission.com/resource/pressSF.htm

"In August 1999, the first Safe Farms Support Rally was held in
Wisconsin - an outpouring of frustration from farmers and other
concerned citizens at the escalation of attacks from animal rights
terrorists...."

'"What is objectionable, what is dangerous, about extremists is not that
they are extreme, but that they are intolerant. The evil is not what
they say about their cause, but what they say about their opponents."
Robert F. Kennedy (1925-68), U.S. Democratic politician, Attorney
General. ?Extremism, Left and Right,? pt. 3, The Pursuit of Justice
(1964).'

'"The FBI defines eco-terrorism as the use or threatened use of violence
of a criminal nature against innocent victims or property by an
environmentally-oriented, subnational group for environmental-political
reasons, or aimed at an audience beyond the target, often of a symbolic
nature." F. Jarboe, Domestic Terrorism Section Chief, Counterterrorism
Division, FBI; Testimony to the House Resources Committee, Subcommittee
on Forests and Forest Health, Feb. 12, 2002'

'Chronologies of Animal Rights Terrorism:

* Center for the Defense of Free Enterprise: Major crimes claimed by
the Earth Liberation Front. (Outside link)'

http://www.guerrillanews.com/environment/doc448.html

'"Quick, name the FBI?s number one domestic terrorist organization.'

'If you said a cabal of radical Muslims or a posse of white
supremacists, you?d be the weakest link. The U.S. government?s most
wanted homegrown terrorist group is the Earth Liberation Front (ELF).,

'First formed in England from an EarthFirst! splinter group in the
mid-90s, the highly secretive, non-hierarchical organization has been
responsible for a well-orchestrated campaign of arson attacks against
businesses and organizations that they claim are destroying the
planet.'

'The ELF web site includes a handy primer on ?setting fires with
electrical timers.?'

'Basing much of their structure and ethics on the Animal Liberation
Front, the ELF?s first official attack in the U.S. was in 1997. Since
then they have caused tens of millions of dollars of damage, including
the burning of a ski resort in Vail, Colorado ($28 million), various
genetic engineering labs and a Republican party office in Indiana.
Their web site takes credit for more than three-dozen acts, and even
includes a handy primer on ?setting fires with electrical timers.?'

'Because of its autonomous cell structure, the ELF has so far been
extremely successful in eluding law enforcement. But last summer, Jeff
?Free? Luers, a 22 year-old ELF operative, was convicted of setting
fire to a Eugene, Oregon Chevrolet dealership and attempting to ignite
a gasoline tanker nearby. The fire torched three pickup trucks, the
tanker failed to ignite. No one was hurt. Luers was sentenced to 22
years, 8 months. Three days before he was sentenced, as he sat in jail,
another ELF cell hit the same dealership, causing ten times the damage
- burning thirty-six SUVs.'
Post by rrr
Sorry, AB, but those are the facts.
Uh huh. Sure. I see all of your facts above.

In fact, what I really see is your opinion. You expect people to take an
emotional outburst as being some sort of fact? I provide links and
quotes. You provide words, with no support of those words. You also
provide your opinion that a valid definition isn't correct, one taken
from an irrefutable source.

Yep, them's the facts. Just be sure to point them out next time. I can't
tell the facts from your opinions.

fire1
2003-10-13 21:35:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by DexAZ
Hope they can get it all cleaned up and rebuild. Tough to find a real
lumberyard these days.
Seems I heard of a string of condos-under-construction fires out in the San
Diego area recently too. Those and the rash of SUV (HUMMER) dealership
fires nationwide are thought to be the work of some eco-terrorists. Maybe
they are after lumberyards now too? "save the rain forests etc"
And maybe it's insurance fraud, or maybe vandalism, or maybe a fire
investigator on parole, or it could be revenge, or good 'ole American
enterprise eliminating competition -- oh, and it could be accidental, or
lightning, or even Al Queda -- not to mention the Mafia, Hell's Angels,
Aryan Brotherhood and a host of other domestic fire "arrangers". And that's
not even counting the interplanetary arsonists.

Remember all the Middle-easterners detained while Timothy McVeigh was
driving away in a pickup? So let's all run right out and blame someone,
confident that we have at least as much chance as winning a lottery.
Fred the Red Shirt
2003-10-15 22:38:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by DexAZ
Hope they can get it all cleaned up and rebuild. Tough to find a real
lumberyard these days.
Seems I heard of a string of condos-under-construction fires out in the San
Diego area recently too. Those and the rash of SUV (HUMMER) dealership
fires nationwide are thought to be the work of some eco-terrorists. Maybe
they are after lumberyards now too? "save the rain forests etc"
While the Earth Firsters I have known stuck me as not very bright I'm
doubtful that they would be able to come up with a justification for
torching a lumberyard.

Then again, like I said, they weren't very bright.
--
FF
TrailShredder
2003-10-13 18:34:15 UTC
Permalink
You gotta wonder, I have heard that a fire in a large OSB plant is the
reason for high OSB prices too. Hope they can catch the worthless SOB's!
Post by Nehmo Sergheyev
Schutte Lumber http://www.schuttelumber.com/default.shtm
in Kansas City, Missouri was pretty much the only place in KC to get
many wood products. It had a large selection of hardwoods and supplied
cedar in dimensions unavailable elsewhere. It just burned.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Midwest/10/13/lumber.fire.ap/
The building that contained all the expensive hardwood escaped
destruction, but the place is, of course, closed and the fire destroyed
a staggering amount of softwood, including cedar.
Two other recent KC area fires were probably caused by arson
http://www.kctv5.com/Global/story.asp?S=1479042&nav=1PuZIU6S
Many people in the remodeling/construction business in this area
depended on Schutte. Shipping wood here is too inconvenient for many
small businesses.
The person who did this is a pyro who is now hooked on seeing lumber
yards go up.
[To see KC Star articles, you need to register and then search. The full
article is below.]
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/
No stranger to disaster, Schutte plans to reopen
By GLENN E. RICE and ERIN FITZGERALD The Kansas City Star
Schutte Lumber Co. has persevered through fires and floods in its
123-year history in Kansas City.
This weekend's fire will be no different, a company executive said.
"We look forward to being able to clean up and getting back into
business in a reasonable time," Stacy Fyock, chief financial officer for
Schutte, said Sunday as fire crews doused hot spots left from the blaze.
It is not known when the business will reopen. Fyock said it would take
several days before work crews would be able to enter the buildings to
assess the damage.
"It's premature for us to say a lot," Fyock said. "We want to be able to
go in and see what we have."
Schutte Lumber provides specialty service to dozens of commercial
contractors, construction companies, area lumberyards and even the
novice weekend home remodeler.
It is one of only a handful of regional lumberyards that provide
specialty plywood and other wood products. Fyock said Schutte offers an
assortment of hard-to-find wood products such as exotic hardwood,
specialty plywood and composite decking.
The company has a customer base that extends from Omaha to the north,
Topeka and Manhattan to the west; Columbia to the east and Clinton, Mo.,
to the south, Fyock said.
The company receives its materials from Georgia Pacific and a number of
other national and regional lumber mills, Fyock said. The company also
supplies lumber to several area lumberyards and specialty stores.
The company enjoys a rich history in the city, mostly as a family-owned
business.
Founded in 1880 by grocer Sigismund Z. Schutte, the company originally
was at the southeast corner of 16th and McGee streets.
In 1902, the yard moved to the northeast corner of 25th Street and Grand
Avenue. Then in 1923, the company purchased land on Southwest Boulevard.
At the turn of the century, Schutte's son, Victor, joined his father in
the family business. Victor's two half-brothers, Louis and Carl Schutte,
also came on board.
An article in the Aug. 20, 1950, edition of The Kansas City Star
described the company as one of the largest of its type in the United
States, supplying goods to about 3,000 retail lumber dealers in
Missouri, Kansas, Oklahoma, Nebraska and Iowa.
Victor Schutte eventually took over the family business, and after his
death in 1951, his wife, Caroline, ran the company.
Fuhrman & Co., a holding company, purchased Schutte Lumber from the
Schutte Trust in 1997. The trust had been overseeing the operation of
the company since Caroline Schutte died in 1993.
Disasters are nothing new to Schutte.
In 1936, fire destroyed the company's planing mill on Southwest
Boulevard. Losses were estimated at $25,000.
More than a decade later, in 1949, a fire damaged 40,000 to 50,000
square feet of lumber.
A more extensive fire broke out in July 1951 after a flood that same
month put much of the company's facility under water.
The flood of October 1998 also damaged the company's facilities.
The Star's Edward M. Eveld contributed to this report.
To reach Glenn E. Rice, call (816) 234-5908 or send e-mail to
To reach Erin Fitzgerald, call (816) 234-7722 or send e-mail to
--
********************
* Nehmo Sergheyev *
********************
Dan Hartung
2003-10-14 06:07:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nehmo Sergheyev
Schutte Lumber http://www.schuttelumber.com/default.shtm
in Kansas City, Missouri was pretty much the only place in KC to get
many wood products. It had a large selection of hardwoods and supplied
cedar in dimensions unavailable elsewhere. It just burned.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Midwest/10/13/lumber.fire.ap/
About 30 years ago, a local lumberyard burned; for at least a decade
afterward, the sales office across the street retained its heat-warped
vinyl window shutters.
Post by Nehmo Sergheyev
The person who did this is a pyro who is now hooked on seeing lumber
yards go up.
Speculation. Arson is in many ways a crime of opportunity. Firebugs are
often more interested in the community response than the destruction
itself. Compulsive arsonists, such as the one we had setting fires for
about three years before caught, seem to be happy with even unsuccessful
fires, e.g. a burned doorway.

Note that some studies show mental disorder as an underlying cause in
under 10 percent of arsonists. The sexual-release analogue of pyromania
-- often depicted in movies -- is actually very rare. In the current
DSM-IV, pyromania is only diagnosed when no other syndrome can be
identified to explain it, e.g. schizophrenia-based paranoia, antisocial
disorder (fka "psychopathy") [which would imply aggressive anger against
a specific target], or histrionic disorder [applied to attention-seekers].
Hopper
2003-10-14 16:18:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dan Hartung
Note that some studies show mental disorder as an underlying cause in
under 10 percent of arsonists. The sexual-release analogue of pyromania
-- often depicted in movies -- is actually very rare. In the current
DSM-IV, pyromania is only diagnosed when no other syndrome can be
identified to explain it, e.g. schizophrenia-based paranoia, antisocial
disorder (fka "psychopathy") [which would imply aggressive anger against
a specific target], or histrionic disorder [applied to attention-seekers].
Which is a rather curious way to say it. I'm fascinated at the DSM
definition of pyromania as you've written. I am puzzled by one thing: it
seems that ten percent is awful low. But perhaps I'm viewing it in the wrong
light. To clarify, you're saying that true anti-social causes for arson or
mental disorder are the minority of arson cases, with the balance being
things like revenge or insurance fraud?

I don't mean to sound like I'm arguing with you (since this is more towards
the studies you've mentioned), but wouldn't a person almost by definition
have a mental disorder if they set fires with the express purpose of
destroying something?

Hopper
Nehmo Sergheyev
2003-10-15 05:52:52 UTC
Permalink
- Dan Hartung -
Post by Hopper
Post by Dan Hartung
Note that some studies show mental disorder as an underlying cause in
under 10 percent of arsonists. The sexual-release analogue of pyromania
-- often depicted in movies -- is actually very rare. In the current
DSM-IV, pyromania is only diagnosed when no other syndrome can be
identified to explain it, e.g. schizophrenia-based paranoia,
antisocial
Post by Hopper
Post by Dan Hartung
disorder (fka "psychopathy") [which would imply aggressive anger against
a specific target], or histrionic disorder [applied to
attention-seekers].

- Hopper -
Post by Hopper
Which is a rather curious way to say it. I'm fascinated at the DSM
definition of pyromania as you've written. I am puzzled by one thing: it
seems that ten percent is awful low. But perhaps I'm viewing it in the wrong
light. To clarify, you're saying that true anti-social causes for arson or
mental disorder are the minority of arson cases, with the balance being
things like revenge or insurance fraud?
I don't mean to sound like I'm arguing with you (since this is more towards
the studies you've mentioned), but wouldn't a person almost by
definition
Post by Hopper
have a mental disorder if they set fires with the express purpose of
destroying something?
- Nehmo -
Don't confuse DSM-IV classifications with science. They're really just a
psycho-babble way to put a derogatory label on somebody. Who has a
"disorder" and who doesn't is not clearly defined. But aside form that,
yes, setting fires, by this classification system, can mean a disorder
that stands on its own. See the "coding note" below.

DSM-IV Criteria for Mental Disorders
http://www.geocities.com/morrison94/

Impulse control disorders
http://www.geocities.com/morrison94/adjust.htm

Pyromania
http://www.geocities.com/morrison94/adjust.htm#Pyro
"Pyromania
· More than once, the patient has deliberately and purposefully set
fires.
· Before the fire-setting, the patient experiences tension or excited
mood.
· The patient is interested in or attracted to fire and its
circumstances and associations (such as firefighting apparatus, uses or
aftermath of fire).
· The patient experiences gratification, pleasure or relief when setting
fires or experiencing their consequences.
· These fires are not set:
for profit
to express a political agenda
to conceal crimes
to express anger or revenge
to improve the patient's living circumstances
in response to a delusion or hallucination
as a result of impaired judgment*
· The fire-setting is not better explained by Antisocial Personality
Disorder, Conduct Disorder or Manic Episode.

Coding Note
*Of course, setting any fire at all would usually be interpreted as
evidence of impaired judgment. What this criterion tries to express is
the faulty judgment usually associated with other Axis I disorders as
dementia, Mental Retardation and Substance Intoxication."

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* Nehmo Sergheyev *
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